EP3 - Be Fat, Selfish, or Prideful. Just Don’t Be Gay: The Mix Tape Era Intro (Part 3)

[Hosts Contributing in this episode: Joey Svendsen / Jed Payne / Alex Ginsberg / Robbie Madison / Liz Miller / Stoy Prioleau / Hayne Griffen 

Pastor With No Answers is back with a new era of the podcast.  The same sorts of conversations and vibe with nine more hosts, including lots of Christians, an atheist, three gay people, that same ‘ol pastor, 2 black guys from the deep south, and a firefighter.

In episode 3, Alex shares with Robbie, Jed and Joey how coming out of the closet almost cost her life, the three also talk on Christians who seem to often have more tolerance for the very things the bible has the sternest warnings against.  The things way less talked about and addressed in the bible?  Zero tolerance.  And some how they stumbled into a conversation on some nuances of Francis Chan.  Joey feels he has a deeper understanding of evangelicals’ views on the LGBTQ community and Robbie saw the church's recent spike of "un-Jesus-like" actions toward gay people coming a mile away.

At the top of the episode, Liz, Stoy and Hayne wrap up their conversation, (in Episode 2) in which Hayne and Stoy look out out for their new buddy (Liz), encouraging her to see her "church hurt” through different lenses.   And in an apocalypse, they discuss who in the host crew they’d want to accompany them.  

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Music (including theme song): Stoy Prioleau (aka: Riggy Rock): Apple Music
Other Music: Derek Minor, Joel Hamilton (The Mechanical River), Joel Hamilton+Friends (Embassyfreqs)

Transcript

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You can say, OK, hey, I get you to do that. But hey, it's so you're listening to the Pwan A the mix tape era. Let's go. If, if you've got a gay friend, you wanna invite them to church, you know that something might be said that may not only offend them but also crush them. Is that the point, you know, for the church I'm like, is this the goal that you're trying to accomplish? I go back to thinking like, how would Jesus uh interact with his child? The selective sin magnifying glass makes no sense to me. So we're gonna exclude gay people, but we're gonna have doughnuts in the foyer and just completely disregard the 60% obese congregation. I don't think it's one or the other because I wouldn't want someone to be like that with me. It's like, well, you're like this, but I can't be involved with you. So for me, I take it by like a person by person basis, I found community in church too. And honestly, even when I was struggling at figuring myself out, let's just seek God together. Let's just call it, let's just call it there. Right. So this one is a tough one here. The scariest and loneliest season in Alex's life causes her to consider suicide, man, man, man, man. And lots of talk about the many sins churches. Yeah, they just ignore things that are clearly forbidden and warned against in the Bible. And then these same Christians harp on things that are way less clear in that same Bible. And oh, it humbles me to say that the sound quality is, is truly like a mixed tape captured by a tape recorder on this one. Some of you don't even know what the heck. I mean by a tape recorder. How long have I been podcasting? Oh, and Jed thinks that sex with robots is really going to be the next big conflict in the church. I can't wait to hear sermons on that one. But first story, Liz and Hayne wrap up last week's talk with a who out of the host group would you want in the apocalypse? I like demanded pleaded called God on promises and was like, you have to show up or like I am done and he did and he did. That's something to really think about. What does it mean that the God of the universe loves me? Are we saying that our God is bigger than their God or what? Man? You got my mind going crazy right now. I just think that that is evangelical bullshit and I don't fit in their box anymore. So, feeling rejected from the church makes me feel far away from God. If I'm living out the love of God, the love of the divine, then in some ways we're un offend wrong to marginalize anybody for any reason. Sometimes we can just have some things about our perspective that's off until we encounter someone who can challenge our thoughts, have conversations with us and we just continue to grow and evolve. I got them with you there. Yeah, I like that. That sounded like the hard core gospel lover. I do love the gospel. I just think we get it wrong girl. I was so highly medicated. I don't even know if you, oh my people, I want to talk to everybody because I won't push y'all. I won't push y'all right to the edge. Like anything I feel like you're afraid of, I'm like, nah erase that don't be afraid of anything in this world and, and, and, and just go explore it. But I, I hear a lot of fear in, in what's her name? Amy? There's so many things I want to talk to her about. She is such a cool person though and, and so polarizing being an elder at the church, the first one to have your back and then also be very reserved in the sense that like, I feel like she's more on the conservative side, but like she said, she totally had my back and got on to this woman who I work with about hounding me. She's somebody who is gay affirming. She is somebody who is an elder at a church and she does not fit anybody's box. Any, any, she doesn't, you know, she checks all of the boxes. So she is a very, very cool person to me and I wish there were more people like her that were still at church and there might be more people like her. I just don't know them. They need you, they need you there. Like I'm telling you, they need you there. You know, like my dad used to say that people's orthodoxy often doesn't match their orthopraxy orthodoxy is what we believe. Orthopraxy is how we live and that we, we'll say things we believe certain ways but our spirits are, they're molded in such way. Our hearts are molded in such a way that it doesn't, we don't, we don't flesh out a lot of the thoughts that we have. Your dad was very intelligent. Oh, that's, I thought about that so many times. So how do you experience the fear though? You're talking about you experiencing fear story just in just in terms of wanting to get to know Amy Amy better? Yeah, I, I just want to get to know her because I, when I hear her speak, I hear different things than what is actually being said. So it's something I wanna experience with her in conversation. Like when she says Liz I had your back, I hear like four other things with it. And so I wanna have a conversation with her so I can tell her I can hear the underlying stuff too. Just see what comes from her after me telling her what I can hear and she gets emotional and II I can see, I see the whole line of her getting to that point. So it's like, man, I wanna say something but I have to do it one on one first before I just put her out there in front of everybody. It doesn't feel pure to me to do that in a, in a audience. Yeah. No, I do like the fact that um if he was to put, you know, like when he was texting us and saying like Hane and Liz and Stoy, I was like, oh sweet. Like I was excited to talk to both of you. But I also feel like if he said to other people, it would have been like, oh sweet, like each one of us is very interesting and very kindhearted. And so I think it's really, really nice to talk to people that are kindhearted, can push you to think a little bit differently or just encourage you to, you know, see something in a different way but that have such different stories. Oh yeah, we all do such different stories. I do think that he did a good job, you know, putting a good group of people together and those stories are different but there's places where you see them crossing as well, you know, which is kind of interesting. But I think you just drill the nail when you said the kindness piece because I, I do feel like that just even in, in the, in, in the brashness, you know, at times. And actually I, Joey's brashness. I don't know. Joey's kind of a wimp, don't you think? I mean, just kind of that? No, he, he take a side street and he crosses his legs fully. I mean, he crosses his legs. He's all I never seen that, but you should have never told me that he did it when we were doing the podcast and I almost made fun of him and said something and then I got like, squirrel, you know, like, hey, I was gonna be like, you know, Joey, why are you crossing your legs like that? I think I've actually actually made fun of him about doing that before. Like, with the kindness, we're so, you know, kindhearted people, but yet we're also gonna like, call each other out like, and, and, and is pretty hard, you know, I mean, Joey has so much is very thick skin, so resilient. I mean, just to have the vision to put the team together that he put together, I think just shows a lot of courage on his part actually, um, is actually earlier today. So we were having a texting conversation a couple of weeks ago about spanking. If you guys remember that, that text thread that we had you guys, I don't think I was in it, but I've heard about spanking. Yeah, but Ellen, oh, she has this really, like, like distinct, you know, thoughts on it and it came out really big, you know, really big out of the gate. Pretty, pretty bold and, and I, I pushed back, you know, I started to push back a little bit and we kind of had this thing went back and forth and I've, you know, I've, I've met Ellen and we've, we've, my wife and I and kids were out in Seattle this past summer and swung by she and Cole's place and got to hang out and had a really, really cool time with them. And, um, I've known Ellen now for a bit but I called her today because I just kind of felt like, you know, I just wanna make sure we're good because we said some things back and forth that got a little, little bowl, you know, kind of, kind of a little pushy here and there. So I, I called her and was like, hey, just wanted to check in, make sure she's like, yeah, things are totally cool. She said things are totally cool. Who was Ellen is Ellen? Oh, I'll show you a photograph. I probably helped out. She has the glasses. She's the really funny one that always has to do something while we're podcasting, like, filing her nails. I can't wait to get her one. That was really nice of you to call her and, and check. I really care. I care about everybody in the group, you know. But that's, I just wanted to make sure that she and I were, were good and she was like, oh, we're, we're totally good. She goes if, if we weren't good, she saying like she can hold a grudge though. I, I feel like her mind is going a million miles or so. She's brilliantly smart. It's moving. She's got a lot going on and I love it. I'm like, man, I can't wait to put it on a pause and talk to her, like talk directly to her, those kind of stuff. Interest me. I'm my mind be going crazy when I'm listening to the whole group. I'm like, oh, their spirit actually comes out. I'm like, oh, oh, ok. Now I see who you are and, and it's, it's like, man, I want to talk to him. Now. I want to experience all of that. Give me all of that right there. You just create a segment, story 101 with story. Yeah, I also want to hear more about Matt's story. Like I feel like there's so much there that also has been deconstructed. There's so many things I would love to just listen to him tell his whole story, his thought process you know, the feelings that he endured through all of it. I just, I can't even imagine. Like, that's just, that's a guy that I would definitely like to have, have a little bit more air time because I feel like he's quiet and he's reserved and if we're not asking, yeah, if we're not asking him questions, he's just kind of chill and just, you know, hangs out, he'll answer. But I want him to definitely share a little bit more. I'm interested to get to know him. He thinks deeply, I mean, he really, he, he thinks deeply, he's very well read. I mean, he's just, he's really thought that yeah, I couldn't, I couldn't agree more. So I got to ask his story going back to the belief question because you know, Matt said zero. But then he said sometimes a one. So yeah, yeah, he did. He did and, and I was going, no, I was gonna to commend him on the zero and then he said, but sometimes it's one. Then I was like, oh you had a 10 like you catch that like I, I was like, oh you, you now you're at 10. So it, it did, it, it had a lot of life for me. And then he said, but sometimes uh I was like, oh you one on one with story ox and story, I mean, there's more to that story and, and anytime somebody pay attention and listen to another person, you hear so much things you and it's like, OK, I'm gonna make this soon as God show it to me and I hear it, I'm gonna make it as comfortable as possible for you to continue cause I'm not gonna judge you. I'm gonna make it that comfortable for you to finish telling your story. And y'all know how therapeutic it is to be able to share and to have somebody that's on the other end of sharing that's actually listening and, and got compassion and they don't necessarily have to say something back if you can feel that energy. And it's a beautiful thing. It's especially with people who have believe at a zero. because they got more stuff that they went down so many stairs, they fell down so many stairs. So that just mean more to listen to for me. I'm like, all right, let, let's hear it. I love it. So Liz, how's Alex feeling about jumping in? Is that because she was, she was the late entry. She was a late roster. She is, well, I think it's very cathartic. Our word of the night night, I think for her, it is very healing to have a place where she can kind of talk about things that she's passionate about. And um we're excited to record and have, I think the thing we're most excited about is doing like Joey was asking about like questions for, for us whether it's like our journey or specific for her or specific for me. Um because she said I would have given anything to have heard a podcast where somebody was like me because she said when she was trying to figure out what to do, she googled everything person who loves God, who's getting married to man and wants to end marriage thinks they're gay. Like she could not find one person that represented what she was going through. And so that made her feel even more isolated, that made her question everything that she was doing. And I mean, of course she was in therapy and that definitely helped and her friends just kind of looking at her saying like you may not marry this person, like you cannot make do this. She was looking for something to, you know, some kind of representation where she could see herself in somebody else that's already walked that journey. And there are so many more people like her out there. And so if people can hear her side, you know, a lot of times people they go through with it and they do get married and then they get divorced or they get married and they choose to stay married, you know, whatever their choices are. But there are so many more people out there that have the exact same scenario where they can't figure out what they should do. Do they have to choose being, you know, a Christian or choose being this person that she was willing to make herself small to not hurt other people. She didn't want to hurt this guy because he was a great guy and she was like, he's my best friend. If I was going to marry anybody, it would be him. But like Stoy was saying when that sexual attraction is not there, it's like, that's not what marriage is, that's a best friendship and, but then there's kids involved and it just happens so often and more people need to talk about it. Just like any other hot topic where, you know, they say don't talk about, you know, politics or religion. We're now talking about all the things and this is one of the things that people need to talk about because they get themselves in situations where they feel like they can't get out and they can, and they just need to know that it's ok. Somebody needs to tell you it's ok. That's not just a therapist. Somebody that says I've been there, I've done that. It sucks. But you're, you're making the right choice. So for her, she's like, really excited, I think, to try and be a voice for those people. And then also just be able to be a voice for anybody that's in that community that wants to ask questions, especially being a professional, you know, she's a lawyer. There's, there's fear in, you know, saying my wife when she's at work. So I think that there's a lot of good stuff there for her that she's excited about being like a voice for. It's a redemptive part of her story. You know how story is talking about that hard time that suffering that feels real bad. But then there's a good on the other side and she wants to help. It's like when you to go through that shit, you need to then help it cause her to do beautiful work. It's definitely something. It's like you just went through hell and you want to make it easier for somebody else that's having to go through it. I love it. One more thing. I, I don't know how much time y'all got but I wanna say this from what Liz just said, not just saying that it's OK to feel how you feel. Also, I would like to expand on that and say you get more out of like say kids are involved. Um You have kids that experience. If you abbreviate what you're given to them, you're abbreviating what they're allowed to, how far they can grow. So like when, when I got divorced, me and my ex-wife brought our kids, we went to a park. I'm not saying this is right for everybody. But if you put the relationship in the right place, the kids get the most from it. If, if you leave it in an abbreviated state, they're, they're only getting 75% or whatever percent. That's not you being all of yourself. So, the me already diminishing what they could be getting. Exactly. So, if you're thinking in the mindset of just it's ok to, to go this route, no, it's the best way because it's allowing everything to get the most from whatever it is. I can't give you 100%. If I'm at 80 it, it's not possible and I'm at 80 if I'm not being myself. So, if myself is not connected to this person, I'm abbreviating it, kids being involved or being hurt as long as I stay connected to them, 100% and 100% is what you always want to give. So the, the closer you can get to being exactly who you are, that's when you're giving kids the most of what they can get. Otherwise you're abbreviating it, it's not ok, you're hurting them, you're, you're, you're, you're not hurting them. You're just abbreviating what they can beat or the potential of what they can gain from your relationships. So, so I just want the most out of everything. Do you still do? You and Robbie live in the same? Are you in Dallas or Houston? No, I'm in, I'm in a, you're in Austin? Have you? And Robbie Matt? No, not face to face. And did you work with Robbie Liz at the church? Yeah, I worked with him before he, well, I knew him before he was on staff at sea Coast. But then I worked with him when he was on staff, when I left he was still on. Got you. Yeah. Yeah. I've never, so, he and I become pretty close because we stay connected through. We do some Marco Polo back and forth. So he's such a cool spirit spirit. He's a good spirit. He's, he's one of those people. I, I see his light immediately, like, as soon as he speak I can see his light. I'm like, like if there's chaos or tragedy, I want to be around him. Like he's a very calm natured person and, and he's the one that I would probably go find if, if shit was going down. Yeah. OK. So here we go. This will be where we, where we can tie this up. We've been going for a while. The apocalypse is coming. I say it's imminent. Who are the two people on the host team you're taking with you to survive to do the apocalypse? Yours are pretty easy. I mean, you gotta take your wife list. I'll take my wife for sure. I would take the wife and Matt. I don't want to know more from him. I feel like he would have things to tell me to make me whether or not we would survive. I'm not sure. But I feel like the things that he would tell me would probably calm me down in some way, shape or form or I would, I would be able to convince myself everything's OK. He would tell me the truth. I don't feel like he would be like telling me things that would sound good to make me feel like everything was going to be OK. The truth matter, would everybody else gone? I don't, here's the thing. If the apocalypse comes y'all. I want to be the first one. I'm like, take me as tribute. Like I don't want to live through that shit. Like I will be the first one that says you can shoot me down. I'll become the zombie, whatever it has to be like, I don't want to live through that shit, but I don't know him very well, but he's very interesting to me and he seems super smart and I feel like the stuff that he would say I would like to hear. Yeah. How about you sty? It's coming. The zombies are coming, man, they are coming. I don't know, man. Nobody's gonna take Amy because Doy says she's fearful. No, I actually I, I it depends if does does Liz and Alex count as one? No, you can take just Alex if you wanted to take just Alex. But I don't know Alex. So that's not fair. But I don't know. I, I can't, I can't peg it because I got, I'm already thinking about what my reasoning would have to be and I'm thinking about OK, if everybody gonna die, I need somebody to create more people with. And so that's already you're trying to create life and I'm like, just tell me the truth, we're gonna die. Yeah. I'm trying, I'm thinking like, ok, if everybody goes to the guy that says, I don't wanna stay at zero, I wanna create another world. You know. So I would say any of the females. I, I can't peg one, I would take any of one of the females. Definitely. And then I would probably take Robbie so he could play some music while uh Cathartic. Yeah, but not, I don't, no, I couldn't pick one person or two people because it's everybody brings something to the table that I would benefit from. So I, I would, this is a simple, I'm going straight tactical here, guys, straight tactical. So I haven't seen everybody in foot race, but I'm pretty sure I can outrun Joey and Ellen. So I'm bringing them because the zombies is gonna take them first and I am hauling ass. Oh, that's a good one. I like it. All right. You're gonna need this little story of how Hayne has no limits with clowning around and thus offended me with one of his dumb ass jokes. And before you listen to, I think it's worth slowing down a bit, Hayne and I are gonna talk more about this whole ordeal on our B sides feed. Really take it to a deeper level, including how him and I would have handled a situation as this. We'll call it a conflict when we were 20 years younger. I'm actually excited to dive deep with this. So, not one person on our host team, as you're about to hear would have been cool with this nonsense. Had it been their daughter? I bet that would include most of the listeners right now. I bet just hearing this story, many of you now have Hayne in some sort of a box and I get it. I mean, we all do this or have to fight against it. But here's the deal. I mean, Hayne is one of the most caring heartfelt guys. I know. So the box you have in mind for him, he's likely not in Hayne said that his wife, Erica says that he has a strong radar for the line of appropriate with the public but is always pushing it with close friends. Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding. So is this a blind spot for Hayne? I don't know, but it certainly can't represent the totality of who Hayne is. And I mean, that thought's laughable, right? But that's how a lot of us read into one statement we see in writing or one conversation we hear on a podcast. I mean, come on and there's more probably a month or two after this, after this ordeal, I sent a text to the host team and really hurt my friend's story was very racially insensitive and not an excuse here. But I, I just had no idea. Now, I'll certainly call this a blind spot for me. But anyone who knows me, I mean, many of you who've listened to this podcast for a long time, you know, that I'm not a racist and would never purposely send anything insensitive. But imagine you've never heard me before. And let's say I'm a guest on a podcast and say something similar according to my blind spot here. Isn't it crazy? The world we live in that many would write me off as a bigot, not even questioning whether there's more than meets the ear, I guess in this case, it's something we've fallen into as a society, people's actions, either good or evil people, they're good or evil based on those actions. But it's just not that simple. I mean, we're way too complicated for that sort of thing. We actually got together as a host team to talk about this situation with me being hurtful to stoy and, and recorded it. This was after obviously Stoy and I talked privately, but we'll release this conversation as a bonus to these first four episodes of the new era of this podcast. Let me tell you guys a story of how two team members had to, had to work through something. I, I crashed on Hane. Uh He said something like, do you, do you need this picture in black and white? And I said, well, there's such thing as filters. I can make it black and white dummy or just something like that? The dude sends me a picture of my, no, you, no, no, no, you need to, you need to, he rips it pretty hard about apple filters and he's like, hey, look how this works. His color photograph of Gwennie and he shows it a black and white. He's like, he's like hitting me hard. So I take the photo and what do I do to it, Joe, he draws a penis next to her mouth and I'm like, I'm not like mad at Hane, but that is very offensive to me. That is my daughter. But as a kid, I didn't realize that. Yeah. So I didn't know who the hell you're talking about. Yeah. So as a ingram nine, I'm like, I'm not gonna say anything right now, but I realize as days went by, this is, this is stuck in my head. I can't get it out. I'm gonna eventually have to say something to Hane. And so he worked through this seamlessly there cause I, like I said, I knew I know Ha's heart but I had to tell him that it bothered me. And when Hane brought forth the irony of the actual text message that a grown ass man had to send to another grown ass man. We lost it. We can totally talk about this. You're one of my dearest friends. I like to opt first to put into words any offense so that I can articulate accurately and not blindside my pal and I'm an Ingram nine. So that's probably another reason I like to write first, but real, real, real simple. I didn't like it when he drew a, a daughter's face. It, it sounds like what a middle schooler would say to another, another middle schooler about his mom. It's totally done. We're in our mid forties writing this stuff back and forth to one another. It sounds like really? I mean, y'all got a laugh out of it. I, I was offended and I, and I even told Hane, I said, I, I don't, you know, Alex and I are still getting to know each other. I said, but I'm not, not sure if it could have been offensive to her. Come to find out. It wasn't. Thanks Alex for really loving Gwennie Alex. It's actually because I don't check my text messages like there's 57 of them in the middle of the workday. I'm just like um OK, bye. So I literally did not see it. I see it either. So who would have been offended if that was their daughter? I would have lost my mind. I mean, I would, but I, I wouldn't have liked it. He has two boys. That's OK. We can feel whatever way you're gonna draw something in front of your boy's face and see like pain is full of grace and so is Joey, y'all are both graceful toward one another and that matters. Thank you, man. I appreciate that. All right. Here's my rider Die Robbie. Our latest draft pick Alex who's married to Liz and Jed Payne, who's also host of church and other drugs podcast. I'm so bad at adding. Who is the 843694? That's me. Oh, I don't have anyone's names in my phone which makes it really fun. I'm like, I don't even know who that is. I'm missing. I think one person we should, we should do another round of place your name in the, in the chat. Like I know Joey's phone number and my wife's phone number and that I'm like, at least, you know your wife's. But for the longest time, she didn't know mine. Like it was like, she'd always be like, what, what's your phone number again? I'm like, really? Hey, so you had no idea who reached out to you with an apology for drawing a penis on my daughter's face. When I saw the penis part, I was like, this has to be like it was, it was very easy to figure out who that was. You. You missed out on that one. You will soon be able to answer this with actually having a kid. But I took a little poll with everybody that was on the call last week and basically asked how many people would be offended if you, you know, even a close friend sent you a picture of your daughter with a penis up to her mouth. And everybody, I was like, I, I felt like Vince was a real penis. Well, you just said of all you said was if they send you a picture of your daughter with a penis up to her mouth there and you like, what am I supposed to think there? Got you a draw a picture like it was in the context of, of a joke. Like I had just, I had just crashed on him. And so that was his retaliatory. But the, but the back story is I actually was offended and I wasn't mad at him because I know his heart and I know that if he knew that that would be offensive to me, he wouldn't have done it. But I waited a few days. That's so funny. That's, that's, I just gotta, like, I mean, this guy just sent a picture of my daughter with a dick. But like, I know, I know, I know it's hard. Fair. He's got, he's got a good heart. He's got a good heart. Oh my God, he's hanging out with those firemen. They're always doing stuff like that, you know. You know, lots of them in their, their calendars, lots of things. Look, I don't want to start off on the wrong foot here, but I do have some stuff to start. I don't want to start off on the wrong foot again. So I was like, so Auschwitz, right. You know, so I've got some beef with with your wife and all. Yeah, listening to the conversation with, with her story and Hane, I, I was offended on behalf. So I, I consider your wife one of my closest friends. I was offended on behalf of my other, one of my closest friends who's on this call right now, named Robbie. So basically she was asked of all the guys who would she consider the most metro? All right. So here, here's the thing is when someone referred to her husband, while he was alive as metrosexual, I didn't look it up. I had no idea. So for, for the last 10 years, I was like, oh metrosexual, that means Joshua Miller. So whatever Joshua Miller is, that's metrosexual. I didn't know what that meant. But I have told people somehow Joshua was able to have the perfect blend of arrogance and humility because the dude would, we would be working in the office and he would be staring at himself in the mirror. He had just gotten his hair frosted and he's like, man, this looks good, but he was not arrogant. I know it sounds like he was, but he wasn't. So anyway, Liz without even hesitating, says Joey and then this is her reasoning. She podcast with me and another really good friend of our Sarah. And she said that I crossed my legs all the way. So she said, I mean, right there, I was, I was gonna, you know, he doesn't even go. I mean, he is all full and I'm like, that's the benchmark, right? So I had to look up metrosexual and it says a man who lives in urban areas and enjoys shopping, fashion and similar interests. And I was like, how did my home girl totally snub my homeboy who is starting a fashion industry, like, just completely ignored way. Is that just real a fashion company? I'm sorry, I'm starting the whole industry. Actually, you got the affection. Robbie started that. You all right, like how can you be so out of touch that not only do you not know what metrosexual means? But you find out years after it is no longer term, it's, it's not even a term because I like because I use, I use, you ever heard of the Bene? I just found out that uh where it came from. But II, I use context. I, I figured it had something to do with fashion, but I just never looked it up. I was like, oh OK. I guess Joshua, somebody who really cares about hair and, and all that stuff. I mean, I, I literally make text message or phone calls with Robbie checking in saying, hey, I'm about to do a wedding. Does this match? And Liz says me over Robbie, that's how to make Robbie feel bad, man. It just means that you're really fashionable. You know, that's how people associate you. Joey Liz thinks I'm fashionable. It's purely the leg crossing thing. I think that that's, that, that was the one. Yeah, that's it. I mean there's nothing, there's no other characteristic that I get out of that. Alrighty, folks. Now, some of you regular listeners who are interested in diving deeper with us may enjoy having private access to some more content, some of it, in my opinion, even better than what's on the main feed. Now, we'd love for you to check it out. I refer to Joey, Joey. You're doing a lot of talking man. Listen, y'all check it, everyone. If y'all want more of this, get that beat, check the show notes and let's go. Here are some clips of what's been going on the B sides feed through the last six months or so. Alan, are you worried about Quincy's soul? But have you been no Quincy? You think that he used to be afraid? And that ignorance can only be destroyed by the power of a living God. So I watched the movie till recently on the tragic story of Emmett Till so they eventually literally had a Tik Tok intervention, sit down with me and even at the time I actually was in denial. I'm like, well, what do you mean? Like, I'm overdo it and it's causing these things with you. Like I do not believe that 2023 white Americans should pay for the discrimination of the past. I think it's inhumane to hold someone hostage for the sins of another. When we think of the people who have influenced us, we usually don't think of their public achievements or their distinctive teachings. Instead, we remember stories that illustrate the impact on our lives. My wife calls me. I used to be not anymore, but given my intertwining my life with indie music and love for hip hop. You could imagine how excited I was to discover an underground hip hop scene. But I'm without a doubt of concern for the more fundamental staffers over there, I'm sure. But I do believe God's will for all of us is to be on the other side of that unrest at some point. Matthew 59 blessed other peacemakers so we can fight for what's right with a peaceful restful spirit knowing we are no better than the ones who anger us. I, I am a full leg crosser as well. It's the bane of having long legs. It just feels good. I mean, and then you and then um 62 ex expound on that Joey. How does that feel good? It's just comfortable. And I explain this to me as a woman. I know what you guys are going towards. I know what you guys are going to. You know, it's just like a little, you have to, if everything is safe and tucked away and it crossed. But I will say if you're used to this sitting position, it does come inconvenient when you have to sit down and you have to pee, it's very convenient because you're already in that position. You're already there. You don't really know these two that well. Right, because you've missed a couple of meetings. I don't, yeah. So I don't, I didn't want to be rude if I don't came up off the street, no one knows me. Ok. That's what I thought. That's what I thought. So, Joey said, he, he saw this woman that looked pretty down on her leg like, hey, do you wanna come podcast? And she happens to be a very successful lawyer. So II I thought was a I thought she was you, you are the one that is with child. Is that correct? That's so my wife is Liz Miller. Um And then I have a kid in my belly currently. So yay, I also my fiance has a kid in her right on hashtag science for I guess for both of us, but more science for me. Like I didn't even think to ask this, how far along are both of you? Like are, are, are these babies going to be born? Because our date is November 12th. Mine's November 30th. Oh, wow. Yeah, it's pretty rare. Do you know if you're having a boy or a girl? We are gonna find out the day of ok, we, this whole science route we got to choose like I, I had all the, the lineup and I got to choose like the strongest one and um I had a dude who's just a strong dude. So yes, this is like both of our first kids and we're later like, we're older too. So it's like same, same deal where it's like, I was kind of like, oh maybe, maybe not, not kids. That's fine. And then like just kidding, we're doing, we're doing uh we were gonna find out and then my fiance, someone told her that it was like Christmas morning times 1000. So I was like, yeah, my parents did that too, which is funny because literally my name is Alexandra Jordan Ginsburg. And I was like, well, what I was gonna, what, what if I was a boy thinking they'd be like super creative and they're like, it would have been Alexander Jordan Ginsburg. I'm like, OK, great. That's awesome. I definitely could not wait to find out the day of, I don't know for some reason that that just feels like a lot. We did that with Rosa and it was the most unbelievable thing because I don't know what it was about Priscilla and I, but we were for sure that this was William. Like we, we just knew it was a boy. I bought a journal, your typical blueish green book, you know, obviously gender stereotype and we just, we, we referred to her baby as William. It was William this way and that so when Rosa came out and they said it is a girl, I was like, oh, I mean, just mind blown. I mean, that was so awesome. The irony of thinking one thing the whole time and I, I really don't know why we were so short. It just, we just were, it feels like a boy also the same thing for us too with our first child too. Like we, well, we didn't even know that we were pregnant until almost three months in. So, yeah, that was kind of crazy. We went to the hospital for the first ultrasound and she was like, 11.5 weeks at least. So what I've heard, at least she got to skip the, because there was a lot of worry. We had, we had a miscarriage back in last September. So there was a lot of like, thank you. But it's like, you know, this is the, what is it called? A rain. Yeah. Yeah. But I've, I've talked to other people that they found out at three months and they're like, ok, good. I didn't have to have that. Exactly. Exactly. But we went in saying that Alina was a boy for sure. And the nurse was like, do you want us to tell you the sex of the baby? And we were like, well, we're, we know it's a boy. So it's not. She said, well, she might get offended if you keep calling her a boy. We're like, let it go. That's awesome. I'm down in Louisiana. I've asked all my, like, Cajun superstitions, somebody asked me if my teeth have been hurting and I was like, actually, yeah. And they're like, it's a boy and I was so stupid. The, the carrying high and the carrying low and all that. Here's my theory is 50% of the time. You're right. And so you see, I told you this and then the other 50% it's, uh, well, it's not right all the time. I think it's a bunch of shit. They're like the high and the low. I'm like, no, it's a burrito, like jokes on you guys. Like, that's from my lunch earlier today. Hey, well, I wanna ask Alex some questions and I think that all of us uh listening and then, and then giving input, what I would love, love to hear come out is just a bit how all of our faith has changed or not so much in general. But obviously, this is a big one. I think I'm speaking correctly when I would say that all four of us probably came from similar belief backgrounds when it comes to being gay, right or wrong. And Alex, I, I reached out to you earlier today just to make sure I wasn't catching you off guard. And I figured, you know, your answer, that's what I figured is, you know, it's, it's a green light you're wanting to speak very openly. II I thought it was remarkable what you said the other night that when you were going through all of this and breaking off an engagement with a man and all of that you googled and could not find any resource of anyone who had walked those shoes. That's just mind boggling. It was, I think one of the most difficult things I've ever done in my life because it wasn't just like a coming out story. You know, some people are like, hey, I'm gay, I'm gonna go live my life. It was, oh my gosh, I'm about to get married to my dude, best friend in five months, but I can't do it. Like I just can't do it. And um honestly, it got to the point where I live in John's Island and there, you know, I was driving on river road and I just thought to myself like it might be easier if I get in a car accident and die like it just like instead of breaking up my family instead of hurting him. Um and he and his two daughters who I love so much, that's where I was at that point. And so when it actually happened, it which it was funny because we actually got in a fight and he ended up coming home and he was just like, Alex, I think you're gay. And I'm like, yeah, I think I am like it was because I've always been open about my heart, you know, and I always thought I just played for both teams um, but he came home and he was like, Alex, I think you're gay. And I just was like, yeah, I think you're right and you know, calling off a wedding and then starting that whole bit. I just remember being like, on my bathroom floor, like pills and hands being like, please someone like, show me that this is ok like that, that I, that I'm not ruining everyone's life that I'm not ruining my life, that everyone's going to be all right. And I just couldn't find a single thing and it was just the most loneliest thing ever. And the unfortunate thing is there's so many people that are like me and that have gone through something like that that they just want someone to say it's ok. It's gonna be better tomorrow. Yeah. And I, you and Liz are obviously gonna be telling y'all y'all story that that goes back to, to that time, I'm sure and, and, and well beyond, I wanna ask you this and, and this, I, I'm, I'm a big boy so I can handle it. I'm I'm sure y'all talked about the people she knew and you talked about the people you like there was a lot of talk of people that you were gonna meet and Liz's background and her church background and all of that. But this is AAA conversation that I keep alive with Liz because I care about her so much. Like, how did it feel for you that Liz was very close to Priscilla and I who are still a part of a church, not necessarily specifically sea coast. And that just happens to be her context because that is where that is the community that she drew, you know, she was super close to. But that church and the belief system of angelical as a whole, there would be a limit to her involvement and her serving et cetera, which means for Liz, I can't, that can't be my community when I totally understand that. But how did that sit with you? Just the, the newness of that story and then, you know, actually meeting Priscilla and I, and you know, was that, was that mixed emotions or how do you process all that? Yeah, I mean, meeting all of like, Liz's close friends has always been, it's been a fun thing but also very difficult but not in the sense that you would think it is not because of the religious aspect of it. Mostly it's been because of y'all's connection with Joshua. And like, how do I fit in with that? Not even necessarily like, how is the church gonna feel about me because I was raised Catholic? So, you know, if there's anything that's like, don't be gay, I mean, like I've heard it all. So that doesn't bother me. I think with y'all, I knew that, you know, you've gone through a lot of growth with her past relationship and that as you said before about Hanes Heart. But I, I feel like I knew y'all's heart before I even walked in to this. And I think if I didn't and I, maybe if you were going through some of the things that you did in her past relationship, maybe that would have changed things. But you guys have already, you already did the work at that point. So didn't necessarily bother me. Yeah. And real quick for our listeners sake, Alex is referring to the girl that Liz dated for a very long time and, and honestly through of course Liz, but then even some deeper heartfelt conversations with her ex-girlfriend, like basically that that was actually a turning point for me was this girl sought the Lord just as much as I did or even more and was like, I am comfortable with this and I feel like at peace and, and I was like, how dare I say, well, your peace from God is wrong. Am I hearing you correctly? Then Alex that you're able to, I, I think I'm stating the obvious but the nuance of Joey and Priscilla just because they're part of a church community that as a whole, obviously, we're not the only exceptions. There's many people at sea coast that are gay affirming, but you're able to deal with the nuance of that's not how we are. But for various thousands of reasons, we still choose this to be our community. Like that's just something that you can grapple with. Yeah. I, I don't think it's one or the other. You know what I mean? Because I wouldn't want someone to be like that with me as like, well, you're like this, but I can't be involved with you. So, for me, I take it by, like, a person, by person basis. I, I found community in church too and, you know, honestly, even when I was struggling with figuring myself out, I went to an evangelical church that I knew for a fact was not gay affirming. And, and here I am struggling with whether or not I'm gay. You know, so I think it's a, a person by person, person basis and I'm not gonna alienate people because they find community in something, but they do have the same beliefs as me or, or at least affirming of me. I'm not gonna alienate people like that because if that's the case, then I would have alienated myself a long time ago when I didn't even know about any of this. I would have, you know, cast myself away. And that's just not, you know, that's also just not how Jesus works. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. I want to ask you, you Robbie and Jed something real quick. But, but I will say, you know, and, and I, I think it's important to at least it's important for me in my heart that, you know, just one example of, of why sea coast can remain a home for me. And it happened this Sunday and these things happen sometimes, I'm like, gosh, it's just, it blows my mind. I'm like, OK, that's why I'm here. So, first of all, the, the founding pastor, I have, he, he knows my views on the LGBT Q community and we've gone back and forth and there never was a, well, you're wrong and I'm right. And this conversation's over, it was an open end conversation. But we literally talked the other day and he, he said that everybody needs to learn some theological humility. And I just love that phrase, theological humility. And basically him saying who, who on earth can say that they know infinite God. Once we get to a place where we do feel that we've figured God out, we shut ourselves off to other people who are seeing God in different ways. And it's like, of course, we're all seeing God in different ways. God's infinite and we're finite and we can't see the complete picture. And that doesn't mean that I, I'm not saying, well, your truth is, is right if you know, I know some people believe in that. But I, I think that sounds kind of weird. Your truth is your truth. My truth is my truth. I do. I believe that there's truth. But when it comes to God, I think we have to be very, very humble with what we say for certain. In fact, I don't know if I have any certainties. I believe 99% that God exists. I believe 99% that God loves me. Outside of that. I don't have too many certainties but you know, Jen and Robbie touch on anything. But I did wanna ask you guys, how do y'all feel about churches? Who, there, there are some churches that are homophobic. They say horribly hurtful things. They're, they're, they're prideful and arrogant and they honestly just need to shut up like it's so frustrating. But then you have churches who at the end of the day behind closed doors, they'd say in a heartbeat, I wish these scriptures weren't in the Bible. It just seems like it's a clear deal and I ha I, you know, I want to love my gay brother and sister, but I have to be faithful to God's Word and that's their approach. And I've heard so many Christians that they even say that with angst, they don't like it. They wish that that stuff wasn't there. I don't know if God has given me an element of, of grace and, and patience along these lines. But I think more than anything, it goes back to the fact that I live the majority of my Christian life just like that. And I know people can maybe die the credibility of my sincere love for gay people. But you know, the, the cliche statement I had gay friends that I dearly loved and if they said, if they point blank asked me, do you think being like, do you think living a gay lifestyle is a sin? I would have had to tell them what I thought the truth was, you know, so I, I just have so much understanding for people who are, are still there. And I, and I hate that tension in my heart because I also hate how it hurts people that I love too. I was just gonna say thank you Alex for sharing that. I know that that's not always easy and non welcoming communities. And so thank you so much. I appreciate that. And yeah, it's, it's interesting to me, Joey as you were sharing that last piece that made me think about when I first went to my undergrad to college, I was so sheltered. I was so and I had no idea like there were so many things, experiences that were shocking to me as a Christian. And I think we're seeing the same kind of reaction right now as I was going through back then. I remember, you know, I grew up as a PK, grew up going to church, you know, very specific black church, you know, culturally, very specific style. When I went to college. It was like the first time I met Christians that cussed, you know, I was like, when did Christians cuss? And like back then, if you would have asked me, I would have probably said, oh, they're probably not actually Christians or, you know, met Christians that partied or got drunk or whatever. And it was just like, oh, yeah, they're probably not actually Christians or all these things met different denominations and it was just, I think everything was just so shocking to me. Um, because of differences, like you're saying, theological uh humility. I think that's so important, important. Um I think that as we walk through life, we, we start to expand the experiences, not only that we go through but also listening and uh to the experiences that other people go through as well in the context of God Jesus, his love for us. And what does that actually mean? And I've seen that, you know, so much in, in churches over the years too and I'm, I'm seeing it a lot now. I remember when we did the uh we did like a mental health conference some years ago. I wanna say like 67 years ago and call it prophetic or whatever. Like I just felt that there was about to be a time where churches are gonna start talking about homosexuality. Uh LGBT Q and it was about to be real bad. And I remember telling a couple of people that said there's gonna be a bunch of pastors that are gonna start talking about it and they've never actually met anyone, walked with anyone and they're just gonna start talking about it. It is about to get real bad. But the light at the end of the tunnel is that hopefully, as it starts getting out there, it'll start shaping up to, to not necessarily the people who are toxic, but it'll open up the conversation to some more healthy voices. Um As I actually consider this conversation as, as one of the more healthy conversations that it's not mutually exclusive, you know, your, your, your faith and, and sexuality and all of that. And so all that to say like, I've, I've, I've, I've seen it, I've experienced it. I've seen people suffer and struggle through that. And I think one thing that has been hard for me and my family is simply just inviting friends to church. You know, like if, if you've got a gay friend and you want to invite them to church, you know, that something might be said that may not only offend them but also crush them and is that the point, you know, for the church I'm like, is this the goal that you're trying to accomplish? I go back to thinking like, how would Jesus uh interact with his child? And I just don't feel like it would match up. Yeah. No, that I loved all. I, I've got a, a ton about it too. Like, and I, I recently um in a nutshell, I know enough that I don't know anything, don't know anything. And I talked to um man, this uh my buddy Derek Gross uh Truth seeker this like Christian mystic dude the other day. He just simply, you know, because he's, he's into crystals and all this stuff and he the most hate he gets is from Christians. And I was like blah, blah, blah, you know, to do with that. And he was like, look man, he's like, I don't know, but I judge everything like by their fruits and I was just like, that's uh yeah, good call. Like that's what scripture says. Like, so I happen to be the celebrated minority in churches and that is the drug, right? Everybody loves the, you know, they, they're widely accepted and it's the redemption story and come on open arms, da da, da, da, da. So it's, it's an interesting dichotomy. I think the church is the Western American church is in the middle of being judged. I don't go to my local church anymore. I watch Greg Boyd Woodland Hills. That's like the only thing I can get down with right now, you know, I think people are being manipulated into a culture war. I don't think it matters just at all. I think if you took hell off the table, the entire anti LGBT Q Christian argument loses anything to stand on because you take that out of the picture then like, so what, you know, if it is this whatever, you know, I have, like I said, I have my sister's lesbian. You what do you mean by that? That the Christians whose hearts are remotely in the right place as far as really loving their concern is that gay people will go to hell. Is that what you're saying? Like that was off the table then nobody. Yeah, that's it. And this is something that I bring to people's attention. Uh Like I like, I feel like I'm a liaison between two parties here. The, the distinguishing factor. The reason why you're celebrated as an addict is Jed Payne does not say I've accepted my drug habits and I'm not going to do anything about it. I'm embracing it whereas Alex who is also sinning according to all of those folks perspective, she's saying, and this is me, this is embracing it and that's, that's the line that doesn't work in evangelical circles and, and if they truly believe what they believe, I understand that. But I do think it's very ironic and Liz brings this up all the time. I mean, she would, she would serve in, you know, children's ministry and, and know some of the other people that were serving were not living Godly lives. That's what I'm saying. And that, and that this is, this is like my single and I can't get over in my head. Like, dude, I've sat in church and prayed for like the critical voice to just go away. But I just, I can't, it's like the selective sin magnifying glass makes no sense to me. So we're gonna exclude gay people, but we're gonna have doughnuts in the foyer and just completely disregard the 60% obese congregation. That's no big deal. The congregation that is like, widely addicted to greed and money. We're gonna ignore that. The, the most thing that Jesus talked about. Love of money. The, the biggest thing, we're just gonna brush that up. Or how about all the prideful pastors who are arrogant as hell? The celebrity? Yeah. That right there is, wait a second, we're listening to this person who is about as arrogant as they freaking get and that, and we just disregard it. And it's like, I mean, and you can go back to like Martin Luther, like, during that time they had like monastic prostitutes to take care of the needs of the men. That was just how it was. It's just stupid. I think it's just dumb and I think it's like, II, I do think, um, I guess saying it's dumb is, is pretty, uh, like simplistic but it's like, I think we're barking up the wrong tree. I think it's like, I don't think that is any sort of hill to die on because it's like, so, so freaking what? Like none of us are able to, if, if I'll go, I'll, I'll bite and I'll say that OK, you, you think it's a sin? You think people are indulging in their sin? OK. So what we're doing this on a computer that was made by slave labor? We're indulging in sin. Like, you know what I'm saying? Like, that's why like, selective morality makes me mad too. And so like, because it's like, it's really hard in a consumerist culture. You can't really get away from these things. All right. Well, let's just go back to like, ok, what are the fruit? Like, what are the fruits? Like, let, let's chase what is, what is true? What is lovely? What is precious? What is bringing people together and we'll leave the sin judgment to God. Let's just seek God together. Let's just call it, let's just call it there. Let's seek God together. Yeah, I think that a lot of ministries are number one just afraid to say, I don't know. I think a lot of pastors are afraid to say, I don't know about things. And the scary part is that um especially spiritual leaders and leader, public figures and big group figures, they're voices that command large groups of people. A lot of people are making up their decisions. They're, they're deciding on things based off of the opinion of the person that they follow. I think especially with like big church now. It's just become such a bandwagon. It, it's a bandwagon issue but it can also kind of go into a place of manipulation. It can be spiritual manipulation as well. I, I think if you know, we're not really careful, maybe unintentional too. Yeah. II, I completely believe that a lot of people are unintentionally diving into areas where they shouldn't, if you're gay and you're a part of the congregation you're not allowed to serve, you're not allowed to be, you know, to do all these different things. But if you're heterosexual and you're sleeping around, you are allowed to do all of that. Yeah. There's no telling about it. Don't, don't tell anybody about it and, you know, everything's ok. So, yeah, I think that there's definitely just such an imbalance there and it can get really, really hairy. It's much easier to talk to the LGBT Q issue than it is about some of the other issues because other churches have been on that wagon. I think the, the one person I keep pointing back to who was like, man, that dude is doing it right is like Francis Chan got so popular that he straight. No out of America. He was like, well, I'm, you know, God is calling me overseas now and like, he's not even here anymore. Like that's how, you know what I mean? It's like, wow, dude, that's how you, you know, his little house church is once they got to 25 they had to split off and start another one. There's like a certain size you would get, I like that and anything when it becomes business minded and like, you have to be careful kind of at my church. Like when, when some things were happening, I, I asked my pastor I was like, hey, are you gonna like, talk about this stuff like from the pulpit? And he was just kind of like, uh you know, it's about like reaching the, the new person. And I was like, OK, so it's, it's in my mind, it's like, are we worried about some bottom lines here? There's a huge part of me that wishes I could go back into the matrix because like, it was so comfortable when I was so certain. And it's, you know, thanks to bad Christian. So appreciate it. Um Feeling like a shit tossed by the waves is scary as hell. And it's it. And that part of that makes me feel like, oh with some of this cult, like, because it's like, I feel like I'm on the outs now and I, there is a feeling of isolation that I, that I don't enjoy. But it's also, I feel like I'm, I'm too awoken to like go back into it. There's an end to it. I don't know. II I can almost promise you there's an end to the, to the unsettled of it. I really do. I really do believe that. I hope so. I, I want to say something about Francis Chan and I want to ask Alex something. I, I don't have anything against Francis Chan, but I do want to say yes, you could applaud him. But also let's remember he's able to walk away from a huge ST church and still have an ass load of money coming in from videos like it's not, it's not like he turned, it's not like he turned his back on money, you know, but I, I love him too. I'm, I'm, you know, I love him but I was thinking the exact same thing. So Alex when it come II, I really appreciate what you said. I mean, just as, as your friend that's helpful for me to hear as far as your, your journey of not ever having known Joshua. And obviously that's your kid's father. Is that something that you think is more of a deal that you're just having to process this on your own? Or, or, or do people say things unintentionally that feed some of that and, and even even me, like, do, do people that love you say things unintentionally that kind of sets that off, I guess. Yeah, I mean, I don't think it's, uh, people are doing things intentionally thing. I think I, you know, I honestly stepped into some really big shoes, which it makes me happy to know that my wife had an amazing husband and my kids have an amazing father. Like, that's fantastic. I'm so glad that he was there. I'm the first person to celebrate him. I still am. I still encourage it. You know, I want my kids to know where they came from, what's in their heart. Uh, that kind of stuff, I think for me it's sort of like my journey, sort of, of a lot of people, you know, in Liz's life, of course, were in Joshua's life. And so it's, I sometimes feel like I'm jumping into the party a little late, you know, where it's like, remember this time of Joshua and blah, blah, blah. And I was like, I was probably like 20 I was not here and I don't know of him and things like that. So for me, that's where it gets a little difficult. It's not anyone being like, how can you fill his shoes? My shoes are different sizes than his, you know, I'm never gonna fill his shoes nor do I want to. Like, that's for my, my kids and my wife have a special relationship with him that I'm never gonna be a part of and I'm ok with that, you know, that's not why I'm in Liz's life and that's not why I'm in my kids' lives. And thankfully no one has ever said, you know, you're not gonna live up to him. You're not like Joshua, like, obviously I'm not like Joshua like check out my boobs like this is not like, you know, like I also don't see you staring in a mirror being like, yeah, like I really like these high class. I don't have that much confidence in myself honestly to do that. Um It's funny though, I have heard that we're similar in a lot of things which is kind of cool. Um, but I think it's like my own little personal journey that I have to go through of like, I just need to know that, you know, people's relationships with my wife have revolved around someone that was very special to her. That's no longer here. I think the hardest part for me is like just being the type of person I am as I've told her, you know, when I'm holding her while she's crying, you know, when it's March 18th, when he, you know, he passed like that I would switch if I could. You know, I just want to say, I don't know if I've told you this straight up or not, but I mean, it brings me so much joy to see Liz happy and then obviously Liz is happy because of someone super wonderful. I don't say this shit to me. I'm pregnant. I'm already emotional. You know, like I know, I know I cry at like a postal service commercial right now. Like just for no reason. I actually, I'm gonna keep going Alex now. I actually, I actually have a letter that I wrote to you probably a year ago and I still have not sent it to you. Not because it's anything bad. It's actually a very heartfelt positive thing, but I'm just like, I don't know if Alex. Oh no, I love stuff like that. I'm such a sad. Here are some clips of what's been going on the B side for the last six months or so. That was good. Thank you. Joy. Joy is like cut, please.