Pastor With No Answers: The MIXTAPE Era
Pastor Joey Svendsen and a community of podcast hosts from all walks, many holding to the Christian faith (some reluctantly), coming together to de-tribe tribalism, defeat hate with love, find common ground with our fellow man and have some fun doing it. Join us and our guests as we learn more together about God, life and how to come together. Love will win. Might as well join now.
Pastor With No Answers: The MIXTAPE Era
Sonny Sandoval - P.O.D.
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Sonny Sandoval was born and raised on the streets of Southtown, Texas, two exits from the Mexico border. He was always a behind-the-scenes person with no ambition of being the frontman for the platinum selling band, P.O.D. The band, known for their heavy music, was too Christian for the world but too secular for the Church. Sonny lives on the edge of these two worlds, a line he has attempted to walk with integrity.
In his new autobiography, Son of Southtown, Sonny reflects on over 30 years of being a Christian in a mainstream band, playing on MTV and touring the world.
How does one truly follow God's calling in this chaotic world? Part of the equation, according to Sonny's story, is being totally and uniquely who God made you to be, without apology and without compromise--but with passion and integrity.
Sonny Sandoval | Instagram | Book
This is from episode 136 of the Seacoast Podcast.
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PWNA Theme Song by Stoy Prioleau (aka: Riggy Roc): Apple Music
Closing song by Derek Minor and other music by Mechanical River.
Hey you guys. Hope you're all doing well and you had a good weekend and that Labor Day was peaceful, not laborious. You would think that a day named after labor would be a day full of labor and hard work. Maybe they should call it Labor Break Day. All right, me and some of the host crew of the last 50 or so Pastor With No Answers episode are gear enough to live. A new podcast called the Goodness Gracious Smaller Podcast. I'm psyched about it. So in the meantime, enjoy this conversation I had with Sonny Sandoval from POD about the book he had just released at the time called Son of Downtown. I was gonna close out by saying peace, God bless and have a nice day, but I thought I'd ask my AI agent what a Gen Z person would say instead of peace, God bless and have a nice day, kind of using those same words. Hey, I said, he or she would say, I bet, God bless for real, have a good one, no cap. All right, hope you think this episode slays. If you do not, you may need to go touch grass, but don't get caught in 4K. And if my kids heard me right now, they would say, Dad, that's so cringe. That's chopped. I can't believe you aired that. All right, enjoy. Well, I wanted to let you know that I just zipped through this book yesterday, and it was a delight. I really appreciate you forwarding me that book. I wanted to let you know that Brian Welch has been, he was one of our first guests on this show. So your buddy, and then uh one of your forefathers, Michael Sweet, has been on here uh as well.
SPEAKER_05So I don't I don't know if he'd appreciate that.
SPEAKER_01Hey, and I did want to just say up top, it sounded like as I as I wrapped up the book that maybe and am I saying am I saying her name right? Is it Nani or Noni? Nani?
SPEAKER_05Noni, you know.
SPEAKER_01Noni. It sounded like maybe she passed away as you were wrapping up the book very recently. I'm sorry, man. It's and for our listenership, everything you're about to hear in this interview sounds like your Nani uh is greatly responsible for uh that sort of impactful woman in your life, eh?
SPEAKER_05Oh, 100%. I mean, all the ladies in my my family, you know what I mean? We have a strong woman in our family. And um, you know, her her whole journey and then being an immigrant and coming to the States and you know, trying to build her life and raise us loving God, you know, she was uh she was an angel walking this earth.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Before we get into your story and your book, I gotta ask you, so is you two still your favorite band?
SPEAKER_05You know what? I just recently listened to the the audio uh in Bono and and it took a few different road trips because it was 40 chapters. Yeah, but that's as soon as I finished, even as I was listening to it, I was like, Yep, this is this solidifies it. This is my favorite rock band, and and he's just he's amazing. It it was an incredible book, and uh so I could you could say yes, most definitely.
SPEAKER_01That's cool. Now I gotta know, as a fellow music fan, like, do you have in your mind your favorite heavy band? Like you're just like, I mean, just personally, when it comes to heavy music, this is my go-to. Do you have a band like that?
SPEAKER_05Well, see, I'm not like um because I know you like tons of stuff. Yes, I'm I'm not like a metal guy, you know what I mean? But if but if I say if I go to the gym or like I just I'm in an aggressive mood and I want to hear something, yeah, there's lots of hardcore bands. Some of the heavy music is just too straightforward driven, you know what I mean? Whereas I like I like so many different flavors, you know. So I that's why I was I like bands like the Bad Brains, you know what I mean? I like uh even though they were punk, they still had some reggae to them and a little bit of funk feel and stuff like that, you know, certain bands in that genre. I mean, I grew up yet, well not grew up, but as soon as we started playing and Tooth and Nail came up, you know, I wasn't I didn't know that there was a Christian scene. Right. You know what I mean? And so or even Christian music. I didn't know anything was labeled like that. And but then once, you know, there was my friends that I was playing with in these bands and they were signing to Tooth and Nail, then I started paying attention to kind of that that scene.
SPEAKER_01I'm gonna say this, man, as somebody who is fresh off reading the book, and uh there seem to be people who God clearly, like clearly calls out of the regular flow of people and for a special purpose. And there's two things that really stood out that seem to make you one of those people. One is, you know, for our listener's sake, if you don't remember, POD, these guys reached the pinnacle of success. I mean, I I'll name three bands that they never were as big as U2, Madonna, Elton, John. All right, so we're talking that that high class uh pod was so pod and y'all say, man, y'all, y'all were y'all were right there, but below that top tier. And what I think is so special, it was net that was never your plan. And I even love recalling when you, I mean, you pretty much said that your buddies who were starting a band, they asked you to be the front guy more out of, well, we can't leave Sonny out, and he seems to be going through a time. We want, we want him to be a part of this, and you weren't even sure if that was something that you wanted to do. So that's one is just you weren't looking for stardom and that what you were more of a behind-the-scenes guy. And then the second one is the situation with your mom, which I want to read uh a passage in your book. And I'm gonna be quiet here for a second and let you do most of the talking, but I gotta read this, man. Um, so in page 62, man, just how you wrote this, for our listener's sake, you had just realized, okay, my mom is my mom's gonna pass away. And it you you wrote, sitting in your car, stunned, heartbroken, pissed off. I started talking with God. I don't know what I'll do if my mom dies. God, I don't know what I'm going to do without her, but I don't want her suffering like this. So I'll make a deal with you. I don't want all that religion. I hate that stuff. I don't want the blue-eyed, blonde-haired Jesus. I don't want the convert or else God of the Crusades or any of the TV holy water flopping on the ground preachers. I want my mom's Jesus. If that's who you are, if you truly are my mom's Jesus, then I'll follow you because that's the only way I'm going to make it through this. And I think that's the only way she's going to let go. So you were in the book, you're telling people that you think she's holding on, where she needs to slip away into peace, but she's waiting for you to kind of get some things right. You rededicate your life to Christ, and then you went, you wrote, I went to the hospital and got cleaned up. When I got back to the hospital, I walked up to the side of the bed and I whispered in my mom's ear, go and be with Jesus. Your girls and I are going to be all right. Thus, there you have POD and what you stayed true to all these years. It seems like that was the anchor. I mean, it's beautiful to read it all and just see God's plan. But man, congrats on on the book. When is it going to be coming out uh to the public?
SPEAKER_05Uh February 25th, release date. Yeah. Um, and I'll be doing some promo in between and you know, just some fun stuff before I take off to Europe with POD.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it really highlights how you have truly lived in two different worlds. And I was thinking about how to articulate this, and I want you to articulate how how you would toy with the words secular and Christian. But when I think of how you truly lived in two different worlds, I think that you were and are deeply connected to people inside and outside faith circles. Would you say that's pretty accurate? You're deeply connected to people inside and outside of faith.
SPEAKER_05Yes, sir.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_05As as I believe we we should be.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And then so unpack, we we've had, you know, we've talked to other artists on this podcast about this whole uh Christian and secular thing. And I know you've got some opinions on that when it comes to P.O.D. But you know, the big question has always been, hey, are you are you guys Christians that play music or are you a Christian band, you know, Christian artists? How do you frame that up for POD through the years?
SPEAKER_05I mean, 100%, just so that we're we're clear. I love Jesus. I have an intimate relationship with the with the creator of the heavens and the earth. And I and I love God. Um, and and everything that you read was a real experience. So I, you know, I don't I don't have a lot of the the the church. Well, I have my own church and institution of Christianity hang-ups, but I've let God take that away from me. But there are a lot of people, even in the industry now, that are and friends and fans that I meet all over the world that have grew up in the church and they're bitter. And it's because they don't have a personal relationship with God. It was all just rules, regulations, do this, do that, and and this is God right here. And he's in this box. And so I had a real experience with God. And when I gave my life to Jesus, it was real. Now that doesn't make me better than anybody, it doesn't make me perfect. I don't have anything figured out, you know. 30 something years later, I'm still walking with God, learning every single day. But what I did believe was that when I gave my life to God, that that that was a good thing. And I thought that people would be proud of me, you know, or or or happy for me that I that I made this decision in my life, especially those who call themselves believers and Christians. It wasn't until I started to hang around Christians that I realized, we're, man, that's it's unfortunate that we do have so many differences. It's unfortunate that you're that you're putting this God who's blowing my mind away now that I'm reading his word and having fellowship with them, that you guys are putting them in this box. And so, like you said, I I wasn't, I never wanted to be in the back. I don't even think I I don't consider myself a singer. You know, I I don't, I've just I've just kind of learned as I've been going. But my heart was was just saying, God, now that I'm discovering how how beautiful you are and amazing you are, I just want my friends to know you. How do how do I do that? You know, and and that was just a prayer. And it was saying, God, use my life. I I don't know how. You know, I I work 40 to 50 hours a w a week, you know what I mean? I do, I'm just an average guy. Use my life. And so when the guys had asked me to be in this band, I had said no at first because I was like, that's definitely not something I'm comfortable with. That's not something I'm capable to do. But in the book, you'll see there are experiences that confirmed it, said, I think I'm supposed to be doing this. But the heart still was that I can grab this mic and tell my community, my friends, my neighborhood how Jesus has changed my life. You know, why why can't I do that? And so that was that was the the intent. That was the heart. It wasn't until we started playing, and we were playing house parties and wherever they would let us. We weren't even of age yet, you know. And but the first time we got played, asked to play a Christian event was when it was confirmed to me that this is not our calling. Because they shut it down immediately. They just heard we were popular, we were we were playing, we're local, playing around town. Two of the guys had gone to their church, you know, growing up, and so we played. And as you read, they they they stopped us halfway into the song because their heart was, this is not of God. And and your tattoos are not of God, and your friends are not of God. And so that was like, this is weird to me. We're being received in our in in all of San Diego. We're playing these battle the bands, and we're catching uh, you know, there's a there's a a buzz going on about my band, and we were very open about our our Christianity. So much back then that I felt like we we became militant, which I had to learn not to be. Yeah, you know, you know what I mean? And and and and once they once we once we realized that we weren't really welcomed into those that that Christian side of things, then it was just confirmation that we'll just keep doing what we're doing then, and we'll just keep playing for our friends, and we'll keep playing for whatever place in San Diego will let us will allow us to, you know, and as we we we went through, we learned how to transition and not be so militant and so in your face and and love people rather than want to fight for what we believe in, you know.
SPEAKER_01Right.
SPEAKER_05Um, and so that's something that we've learned.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and and you know, just just to to give people a reference point. I mean, there's stories about and and and I mean you're you're just you're giving your story. I mean, being uh about to go on to the Letterman show, I mean, uh being at at SNL and and hosting SNL as your band, and and like, you know, that was during the Will Farrell era. I love the story about if I'm not mistaken, were you guys at some voice lessons where Katy Perry walked out having just got voice lessons? But anyway, she knew you guys were the Christian guides and wanted y'all to see her uh Jesus tattoo. Uh I mean, seriously, one of, and I was thinking about this, like maybe the and I I think crossover bands is, you know, for a listener's sake, that's deemed uh it's kind of the term as a Christian Christian musicians that make it in the mainstream music world. And I don't even know if you would consider P.O.D. a crossover band, but I would say DC Talk was another big one that did that, Jars of Clay. When it comes to heavy music, I don't I don't know if there was any one that I can think of bigger than POD where people knew you guys were Christians and it just didn't matter. It was just like, well, POD, they're if you heard them, have you heard that album? Yeah. Like is there a band I'm missing?
SPEAKER_05No, no, no. But but see, even even in those circles, as much as we love those bands, and I and I know them, you know, I know a lot of them personally, they were still within, they were still behind the church walls. It didn't matter how big they were, they could have done arenas. It was all Christians, it was all youth group. And I don't say that in any disrespect whatsoever, but we didn't want to do that. So when we would play with all these secular bands or we would play local shows, because we were so open about our faith, we knew that, hey, we have to be 20 times better than the bands we're playing with because they're already gonna judge us and say, yeah, but that's a Christian band. Oh, that's that's they're like these guys, they're like these guys. Don't listen to them, kind of kind of thing. You know, it's not the real deal. So all we can do is try to be as excellent as we possibly can, play the best that we can and compete with everybody that would hit the stage with us. Then when they're like, I don't know really no God, but I I really love your band, man. And then it opens up a door for them to say, Yeah, I still peep know people that like, dude, I I don't know God at all, but I freaking love POD. Yeah, I love that band, you know what I mean? And so that's all we I saw I ever wanted was just that soft place, you know what I mean, to to land so that God could say, see, these these guys are my own. And and you do have freedom, you know what I mean? And and I do have style, and I do, I can't rock with the best of them. I am the best of them, you know what I mean? So we always had that that edge to us. And but like you said before, in going into it, once we once we got into the music system in the in the mainstream, then there were people trying to classify us as a as a Christian band, but they weren't doing that in a good way. They were doing that in a way to say, hey, okay, I know POD's popular, I know they're on MTV. You're still second grade.
SPEAKER_01You're still second grade.
SPEAKER_05But exactly. And they're trying to put us in a category. So whenever, even today, 33 years later, I'll do an interview and they'll say, So, are you a Christian rock band? And so when I would get asked that by Rolling Stone magazine or whoever, I'd say, Well, what what do you mean by that? Right. And if you can define Christianity, please let we can have a discussion. I am an open book about my faith. But also, if this is a rock magazine, you want to talk rock and roll, let's talk rock and roll. But I came to a point where I realized that 99.9% of the time, they weren't trying to highlight my faith or highlight the goodness of God or or my story. They weren't trying to highlight that. They were trying to, you know, subliminally tell their fans this is a Christian band and you shouldn't take them serious. But once we sold a million records, once we sold five million records, we sold 10, you know, they then they can't deny it. And it's like, uh, how do we get them? How do we get them another way? Obviously, it's you know, and at that point, it wasn't Christians who were buying our record. It were those that were like-minded that said, no, I've been following POD since '92. I love these guys. I believe in their heart. Um, but there were still those, you know, the majority of believers that were like, uh, it's not really, either it's not my style or I just think they're wolves in cheap clothing, you know?
SPEAKER_01Yeah. We've gotten it all. Yeah. That was so cool. That was what was cool about that scene back then, too, is you did have Christians and non-Christians both in the same scene, neither of them really caring whether or not the bands were Christian or not, as long as their hearts were kind of in a positive posture. You know, just like, hey man, this is putting some good into the world. I'm all about it, man. Jesus, that's fine. You know, may not be something I believe in, but that's fine with me. They're trying to love people, you know, and it's it's like it was like a cultural unity, man. It really was.
SPEAKER_05It is. And it and it and it's it's a scene because in that hardcore scene, it was like everybody was about something, and you had the platform to be that. So, you know, for us saying, hey, we love Jesus, that wasn't shocking to the hardcore world because they were saying, Well, I'm straight edge and I'm vegan and I'm Buddhist, I'm Krishna. And so we gave each other the freedom and the space to say what they want. Just go up and say it. It wasn't until we got into kind of the rock and the mainstream that said, Hey, well, wait a minute. This isn't, we're not, this isn't really a scene. This is an industry, you know what I mean? And this is sex, drugs, and rock and roll. So you guys really don't fit in there. You know, but the moment, like I said, we sold records, then it wasn't about that anymore. It was like, oh, we can make money off these guys. Yeah. And so instantly the industry starts coming to us and saying, Well, tell us some more about other bands that you that you know about. And that's when they discovered the the skillets of the world. You know what I mean? Project they signed Project 86. We got Blindside signed. They start looking at other bands that came from tooth and nail and came from that world. But it wasn't like they were trying to support their message. They were just saying, there's a market for this, there's a world for this. But, you know, we've always been not really marketable because we're so culturally mixed and where we come from and how we look, and and also we're so upfront with what we say. So, kind of in my mind, I believe in my heart, I believe that I don't even know if we were ever really meant for the mainstream, but there was that season and that pocket in time that I do believe God said, I'm gonna put you there so that you guys could tell the world that you love me.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah, and I and I want people, I you know, I think I think your words, you know, in this book and the stories you recount just speaks volumes. So I want people to feel this sort of of mixture of your commitment to God and what God is gonna do, and adding your uh absolute resoluteness, and I'm I'm not a religious person. Religion will not have uh a play in what I do and listen to the fruit of this. So, this is an email you got from a Brazilian guy. He's he says, I don't believe in God, but I've always loved P.O.D. I was at the show when you fell off the barricade. I watched when you were trying to get back up. All those people were hugging you and were hugging and you were hugging them. I think you were praying for them and they were praying for you. If that's God and his spirit, I want that. I need that. I was at a pod concert, man. Which which did not feel like church. I can guarantee you, people, it did not feel like a church concert. It didn't look like a church setting, and someone experienced the Holy Spirit. Yeah. I mean, how how insane is that?
SPEAKER_05Yeah, but the cool part about it is that I was in a transition where I was basically asking God or telling God, I don't want to do this anymore. I I don't like I don't want to do this. And now here we were in South America, and I was praying and saying, God, I don't, if this is not of you, then I don't I don't want to do this because I feel like and I write this that God, I don't want to waste your time, God. And and and and if I'm being honest, I don't want to waste my family's time either. And so I knew that at that point, this is a Portuguese-speaking audience. I knew that I couldn't go up there and do the song and dance that most, you know, religious leaders do and religious bands and stuff do. They get up and they say what you want to see. But at the end of the day, they're just selling who they are, they're selling their music.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_05And so I knew that I couldn't get up there. And so I was saying, God, please, please do some Holy Spirit, move on these people so that it's it's you.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_05And so I I made a I said to myself the other night, I'm first of all, I can't say anything because I don't speak the language. I'm just gonna play the music. I'm gonna play the music that you that I believe that has been given to us by God, and so we played it. And that's the night that that that happened, and it and that's when I stumbled back on stage, you know, from after falling off, and I was just like, Thank you, Lord. Because see, at before in POD, because of the pressure of Christians or or you know, no, this is a ministry, not a band, and this pressure to preach the gospel or to to be whoever they thought we were supposed to be, a lot of the times and or most of the times, it was always forced and it was contrived. Because if I have a microphone in my hand or a platform, we as Christians believe that that's the only way God will save. If I say something from my mouth right now, they're not thinking about the long plan of living your life, living your life loving God and loving people and being kind and empathetic and being the person of Jesus. Yeah. They think it's oh no, it's that's in a moment. Right. And so, and so that's why it's like, well, you guys don't say Jesus enough in your music, or you don't give altar calls that it's like, dude, actually, we did that in the beginning, and that wasn't the way to go. Right. We were we were being we were more bitter in people's mouths than anything, but some Christians will say, Well, that's just because they can't handle the truth, and that's you guys are no compromise. And you guys are giving it to them direct. You know, and it's like, nah, well, we're being invited into their house. We want to be invited back.
SPEAKER_01I love that, I love that. And I love how you put that in the book. And as a guy who went to all these shows, I, you know, it's it clicked with me. Like you, you basically said how, and and these are my words, but basically trying to articulate what you said, but you basically said something to the point of you were invited there to play a certain kind of music that you're you're basically saying we play. Hey, we play this kind of music. You invited me in. They didn't invite you in for a sermon. They just didn't. That's not what they were asking for. Now, you know, so it you could almost see it as, and I don't think you use this word, but almost like rude. Hey, we asked you guys to come play music. Um now, and and that's not to say that everybody who does altar calls unannounced are are rude people, but I I think when you flip it around, and I gotta read, man. You you I don't know if you remember the guy who sent this, but you said a Christian dude sent you a letter and it was the best advice you had ever gotten. He he said, I've been following you guys, I'm excited for you, and I love your zeal. Good so far, you say. But then he continued, if I could give you just one piece of advice, you're gaining in popularity and you're playing places that I could never play. They're places that most guys who are vocal about their faith never get into. And then he admonished you and said, Don't forget to lead in love. Remember, you are guests in the world's house and you want them to invite you back. Leave the self-defense behind and lead in love. How have you done that this curve your whole career? Have you done a pretty good job? Would you give yourself a B plus?
SPEAKER_05Hey man, I I hope so, man. But it was that, but you can tell. That's some great advice, man.
SPEAKER_01That's some great advice. Gosh.
SPEAKER_05Because you gotta understand, we came from the street, so it was like when we gave our life to Jesus, it was like we knew that the the people would be offended. And it was like, or say, oh, you guys are weak for that. That's a crutch. That's uh, and so it was like we've we had almost like a gang mentality, like, well, dude, I'm I'm I'm ready to throw down right now for my Jesus. No one's gonna tell me. Yeah, and so when we would play shows, you know, we would we would go with that mentality, like, I'm ready to, I'm ready to go. No one's gonna tell me about that my God is this or my god's that. And that's not the way, man. And so when he wrote that, and back then, I don't even think it was emails yet. It was a personal letter. And he was just saying, Man, I love I love what you guys are doing, and I get it. And that comes from an experienced, mature believer where he's saying, I get it, I get where your hearts are at, but remember this, lead in love. And so, you know, we learn every record, man, we learn every tour. It's we learn every every year that we keep moving, it's like, you know, we're trying to lead in love because most of the people that we're in contact with, bro, they they've been hurt. They've been hurt by Christianity, they've been hurt by the the church, they've been hurt by pastors. What they don't realize is that that's not God. Right. That these are just people, they're just human beings, just like us. That, you know, but sometimes as believers, we act, we try to act like we got it all figured out and we we're telling the world how to be when we're not we're not applying them to our own lives, you know. And it's that same mentality. You're just trying, you're just defending the cause, you're defending our God, and it's like we don't have to defend our God. Our God is He is almighty, He's powerful, He defends us. Yeah, He don't need us, pal.
SPEAKER_01Hey, let me let me ask you a quick politically correct question, get your opinion. Is it okay for me as a white guy to refer? Can I ask you, hey, you're from the hood? Is that okay for me to use the word hood? I'm serious. Like I'm a little uncomfortable.
SPEAKER_04Can I just 100%? Okay. I'm proud, hey, I'm proud of my neighborhood, man. It's just short for neighborhood. That's all.
SPEAKER_01Okay, okay. Um, so you I I want people to realize you, you know, you found uh a lot of financial blessing with your craft, but you you were from the hood. You were from a very, very low social economic background. When you look back on Sonny in his 20s, you know, I know for me as a 47-year-old, I look back at Joey in his 20s, God bless him, but my gosh, uh, you know, just I I probably feel this. Yeah, I'll I'll feel the same way about 47-year-old Joey when I'm 67 too. But I just look back on that young version. When you look back on that young version, man, you were given a huge, huge challenge. You became famous. You be you became a rock star. You know, we people say, oh, what a rock star. You were a rock star. Like looking back, how'd you do? You know, uh, how'd you do in those early days? Because you, you know, you made your mom a commitment. You made a commitment most importantly to God and you were serious about that. How'd you do in those early years?
SPEAKER_05You know, man, that's that's that's the reason why I, you know, a lot of this I writing the book. Uh I didn't write this book to be a how-to do Christianity. You know what I mean? Here are the five steps to loving God because I don't have that figured out, but I am in love with God. I you know, I believe, I believe his word, I believe that he saved me. And when I got in this band, it was just, it was almost like I was saying, I really don't know everything right now, but I just know that God saved me and it was real, and he can do the same for you. And as we got through, this is the challenges of life. I don't, I mean, there are challenges even in the four walls of your own church, you know what I mean? But I don't have the luxury to do that. We were in the real world, and so everything is an experience, you know what I mean? And then, you know, just to fast forward through it all, mistakes and all, successes, glories, you know, good choices, bad choices. I still got to a point where I realized that in my mind I thought, no, I'm still I still love God. That hasn't changed. I'm still sharing my faith with people, I'm still doing good things, I'm still loving people. But then I got to a point where I realized that I was so jaded by not only just rock and roll and music, but I was I was jaded by the institution of church and Christianity, you know, and so I finally got to a place where I realized that I was lukewarm. I didn't, I didn't plan to be that because in my heart I still love God. That's never changed. If you would ask anybody was to ask me about Jesus, I'm gonna share Jesus with them. I'm gonna love anybody, I'm gonna be I'm gonna be helpful, kind. That's not gonna change. But my experience, you know, and and being in the presence of God was it just everything had just changed. I was just so jaded. And that's when I had made a decision to just to just put it down for a minute and say, God, you know, if this is not of you anymore, then I'm okay with I'll get it, I'll get a nine to five tomorrow working locally. At least I know I could be home with my family, you know. I I don't want to do this for rock and roll sake. God, you know that's not my heart. But I also could admit and realize and ask that, yeah, it's hard to live in the world, even when you know Jesus, it's it's hard. And I was tired of being judged for maybe not doing it up to the standard that people thought I was as a Christian. We were just living our lives. Nothing, nothing bad. I'm not, I can't say that. I definitely am not living the rock and roll story. You know what I mean?
SPEAKER_01But that's just you're taking you're taking your son justice on on tours and be an example of what a good father looks like. That's how you were rolling, yeah.
SPEAKER_05But that's just what my book talks about. It's like even though I'm in the heart of rock and roll, through my mistakes, like I said, successes and all, there was still that conviction that said, uh, I'm getting a little bit too close to the fire, I think. And and and I have to pull back. But thank God that that I have a spirit to to remind me of that.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, to uh unpack for people what cutting your dreads represented to you. And was that the same time that you stepped away from POD for those three years or so?
SPEAKER_05Um, it was right before. Okay. I uh I I wasn't ex we had we had finished a record and some other things had happened in our life. Then I was just like, it's time. I just I just need to step away. But I was going through some stuff during the process of a record we wrote called or recorded when angels and serpents danced. And, you know, some some personal things had happened, and and I just wanted to just strip down of it all. I I believe that I was gonna die with with my dreads, you know what I mean? But there was a part there was a part of me that said, you know, that I did that's not my identity. You know, that and now that I've I am a rock star or whatever whatever you want to call it, that's not why this I started this. That's not why I was called to this. And so I just wanted to be stripped down of all of that stuff. And that so that was just more of a personal commitment to God saying, Lord, if there's anything left or anything in me that's good and you can you can still use then use it. And if everything that need that I you need to rip out of my life, then then do that. Um and that was just a rededication to God saying, I uh, you know, I'm I'm I'm still in it, you know, I still believe 100% who you are, yeah, and I want to follow you the best that I can. And you know, at that point, my you know, my my wife had two daughters, she was pregnant with my son, and it was just I was just seeing the toll that rock and roll had on all of us as a band. And it was just my way of saying, God, you know that I I didn't sign up for this and I I don't want this. And so I just want to make sure I'm I'm in your hands, that's all.
SPEAKER_01It feels like it's gonna sound really silly, uh, but as two guys who've been walking with the Lord for a long time, you'll probably pick up on what I'm saying. It almost felt it almost seems like you permanently fasted your your dreads because when I look at fasting and the purpose that God has used in my life, it's like a reminder. Hey, every time you feel that hunger, you know, you remember that I'm the one who supplies. And you looked in the mirror for years without dreadlocks, you know, it's something that you had for decades, and that was a reminder of that dedication, man. That's all right. Uh one more story, and then I want you to give a shout out to the Warriors and tell people who the heck they are. But you got to tell people with the Youth of the Nation album. And uh, I'd love to hear why you think it's more relevant now than it was back in 9-11. But the uh the song situation with the live and boom around 9-11, I thought that was so interesting and neat how God orchestrated all that.
SPEAKER_05I mean, it's so much to unpack there, but it was, you know, that was a heavy season for the world, you know. Um and I believe that because of the kind of band that we were, because of the kind of message that we had of hope, most of the time in rock and roll, it's not received, but all of a sudden, here we are, 9-11. Our album, Satellite, was released on 9-11. We're one of the one of the a handful of bands in the rock and roll industry that was recognized at the time because obviously we know the story of 9-11 and what happened, but the the world is is instantly looking for answers and searching for hope and and reason and questioning life and you know all these things. And here is POD with the number one rock song on radio, a number one MTV video that is saying, I feel so so alive for the very first time. I'm I'm happy to be alive. Because of that, all of a sudden people started paying a little bit more attention to to our band because it because they had banned most of rock and roll songs because of the content, because of the phrasing, the words. We even Boom was was banned from radio for a short season because it was crap, it was too, it was too too relative to you know the the the the crashing of the buildings.
SPEAKER_01Right. Jimmy World had Jimmy World had just released Bleed American and they had to change the title of that album just to self-title it, I think. I mean, how crazy is that releasing an album called Bleed American right around 9-11.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, see, so you uh so perfect example. You can see the opposite effect it would have, whereas POD was saying, this is who we are, this is alive. And so they started to pay a little bit of attention. And you know, obviously, years go by and people forget to ask those questions. People aren't looking for hope. You know what I mean? It's just rock and roll has gone back to what rock and roll is in in the negative state. So that's why I believe that was such a season in a pocket for us to be visible, and so that song was was was huge. It still is to this day, it's become an anthem. Youth of the Nation was our second single. It's be it's become an anthem everywhere we play around the world. And it was just, you know, it was telling a story because we were writing the record two blocks away in our hometown of San Diego when there was a shooting at a school in Santee going on uh in real time. You know, again, you'll read it about it in the book, but this we were faced and forced to write a song about that saying, man, I it's so tough for our kids, you know. What's going on with the world? You know, obviously it brings up uh depression and bullying and and and gun control and you know all all this stuff. Like I said, it's a lot to unpack, but here we are 22, 23 years later, and what what's changed? Our kids, it's it's gotten worse for our kids, and now I'm older. I'm I'm more experienced, daddy, now, you know, and and I say this all the time where I'm like, dude, I my heart breaks for for the kids of this generation. My my heart broke for my kids, and my now my kids are becoming adults and are adults, but it doesn't make it any easier to survive in in this world. And so, yeah, it's easier to understand why you know a kid is releasing so much frustration or or a kid is having you know, now we're learning so much about mental illness and all this stuff. And where where are we in all this stuff? Where are we protecting our kids, you know? And but again, it to me, obviously, I believe mental illness and all this stuff is a real thing. And and I believe in all uh uh the resources to handle that. But I also, because I am a man of faith, I'm saying, man, don't forget to go to the main source. God understands, he knows. Like you don't realize how much love and knowing your purpose in life and your identity of life could set you on the right path. And we get all of that from God, and that's just because I've seen it, I've lived it, I I believe it, and and I'm a man of faith. And you know, I want every kid to have peace of mind, and and I know true peace comes from the Lord alone.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that's awesome, man. All right. So am I right to say that the Warriors are kind of an unofficial fan club that helped put POD on the map?
SPEAKER_05Oh, 100%, man. I it that was the old school, you know what I mean? If you're old school, you know. It's always been that. It kind of died down the old, you know, once we became the old guys, you know what I mean?
SPEAKER_01But but there's still there was uh I mean there was Total Request Live on MTV where they just basically called off the, you know, uh occupied the phone lines to get you guys where y'all needed to be on that show. And that's awesome.
SPEAKER_05And that was another example of being undeniable because back then it, you know, it you you couldn't fake it, you know, you couldn't do it like today and say, oh, I got a million likes on this, and no, you didn't. You didn't, that's not real a real, genuine million likes. But back then, before cell phones, when people had to call in East Coast time for 4 p.m. to 5 p.m. to physically say, I vote for POD, this song, this song, right? That was proof that we have we have believers out there, not only believers because people were coming along, but that's the power of being one heart, one mind, soul. You know, we're so divided by our, you know, I'm this kind of Christian, I'm that kind, I'm this or that. We're so busy putting ourselves in categories instead of coming together and have unity and and power and have a vote. And that's exactly what the Warriors did. It was those are it was the Warriors that were following POD for the the first seven, eight years and said, This is my band, I'm voting for them. And so that's what put us on the map in MTV's eyes. Because I I believe behind the scenes they were saying, Who the heck is this band?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah, because back in the day they they weren't AI calls, those were real human beings picking up their phone, and some of them had to do the little dial thing and you know, g blah blah blah. Exactly. And if they messed up, they had to start all over.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, and they had to take time out of their day. There's people that took their break so that they can go call. And that was that's again, that's the power of unity, as as um if if we're putting it in this context, it's the power of the unity of true believers. Yeah, that say, hey, that's not really about my opinion, it's not about this idea or philosophy, it's about making sure that our God is is seen.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, awesome. All right, well, son of Southtown, you guys will by the time you're listening to this, I'm pretty sure it will be available. And I want to say thank you very much, Sonny, for your time and sharing your story. I want to give you uh a second to let us know. We'll obviously have the show uh links in the show notes to POD and the whoevers. Is that still going on? Tell people just everything POD is is is doing, any tours coming up. And did I say that right? What you, Brian and Lacey, the what are that, what's that called? The the whosoevers. The whosoevers, yes.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, it's just a it's a I'm just over here botching things up, sonny.
SPEAKER_01Don't mind me.
SPEAKER_05It's okay, brother. It's okay. It's just uh it's just a brotherhood and a sisterhood. And there was a a time in my life, you know, and we I write about it in the book where I just got tired of being around even even Christians that that that just didn't understand, you know, that just you you kind of need to regardless, whether sometimes with with Christianity, the only thing we have in common is is the fact that Jesus died on the cross for us, and we believe that. But but so a lot of times we don't have a lot of similarities and that and that's okay. And at that point in my life, I needed to be around people that understood. And it was the head of corn, you know, my brother Ryan Reese and Lacey and guys from you know other just other circles that worked and lived in the real world and were just trying to love God in doing so. And we needed a place, you know, where we can come together, and then that's branched off into telling our story and going into schools and jail cells and you know what I mean, uh uh rehabs and and homeless shelters and just wherever we can to reach kids. Um that's always that's always gonna be a part of our life. As far as POD goes, we'll be by the time you're watching this, we'll be getting re ready to leave uh on tour to Europe with Godsmack and Drowning Pool. And uh we'll be busy the rest of the year. Uh I have my Youth of the Nation Foundation that keeps me busy uh here in San Diego. I'm just staying busy, bro. Just trying to, I'm trying to to live out action and not just just word, man.
SPEAKER_01Heck yeah. Isn't it a neat thought that 20 years like people are gonna go to nursing homes and like the old people are gonna be rocking to like POD and Snoop Dogg and I mean seriously, that's gonna be cool, man, when when us old people are rocking to some good stuff.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, probably because they heard they heard it like in a in a commercial or something by that time, you know what I mean? We're gonna be the old guys where our music is like it's it's gonna fit everywhere.
SPEAKER_01Sonny, thanks so much, man. I we really appreciate it.
SPEAKER_05Appreciate you, man.
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